In Conversation with Diana and Shannon

About our Speakers:

My name is Diana Linares and I’m a clinical worker here at the Relationship and Sexual Violence Preventions and Services. I’ve been here for almost two years, and before coming to USC I worked in the community as an advocate and as a clinical therapist for sexual trauma, intimate partner violence, stalking, and community violence.

I’m Shannon Lam. I am a senior here at USC. I study human biology and gender studies. I have been a part of RSVP for 4 years. My freshman year, I joined VOICE, which is the violence outreach intervention community empowerment. [VOICE] is the outreach program here at RSVP, which does a lot of outreach programs for students here at USC. And I’m the undergraduate intern [at RSVP].

What do you both think about domestic violence -- where does it start, and what part of our culture around sex and sexual violence need to be changed?

Diana: “Where do I think domestic violence starts? I think that it's been ingrained in our society, since anyone can recall in history. When we look at how women and children have been treated and oppressed, throughout history,  a lot of it is caused because of their gender. The power dynamics of our society influence a lot of the perspectives of children and women. In cases of intimate partner violence -- usually the person that has less power in the relationship, whether it's socio-economic needs, whether it's the immigrant whose been separated from their families or [whether it's] age -- Age is a big factor, you know. On college campuses we have a lot of students who particularly, or international students, who are living away from family members and have a sense of need to be supported by their current partner. When a person is away from or isolated from their support group it's more likely that they would be in that situation. So I think that there are various factors, that could be learnt from our family roots, our culture roots, and our society. I think it's also something that we've experienced because we don't have an understanding of what violence is and how it looks like in a relationship. For the most part, we tend to think about violence as something that has to be aggressive, and we tend to overlook maybe the more subtle signs of violence -- like the way that we speak to each other when there is no respect, the way that we don't communicate, and how we use our body language to threaten the other person. Or sometimes it's just manipulation in relationships, when somebody feels validated while the other feels guilty. So there's several dynamics in relationships where it's easy to overlook and sometimes the flags don't come out until the violence has escalated in the relationship.”

Shannon: “Yeah, and I think as a student here at USC, I think rape culture really supports all the things Diana just said. I hear a lot of jokes from my peers, that kind of normalize rape, sexual assault, and domestic violence. Not to be crude or anything but sometimes when I come out of exams, some people around me will say ‘that test raped me’. And that already kind of normalizes rape into something that makes it seem normal in our society. And I think the biggest thing we can do as students, peers, faculty, staff here at USC, and just as people living, is to just kind of challenge that. In order to challenge rape culture, we have to remove what's going on that normalizes rape and what supports the escalation of violence within couples.”

How do you perceive sexual violence in your community/society?

Diana: “I think if we look at what’s happening in politics now with Brett Kavanaugh and with President Trump and just the sexual remarks that have been normalized and these individuals who have political power have been accused of sexual violence and yet there haven’t seemed to be consequences to their behavior. Back to the normalization, you can use verbal abuse which is a form of sexual violence and... [have it] go without consequences. And now we are reinforcing that thought that ‘hey you can speak that way towards any individual who has less power and there will be no ramifications for it.’”

Shannon: “I think it starts really young when boys are socialized through toxic masculinity. And... [while there are] other perpetrators of any other gender, just concentrating within toxic masculinity, [male perpetrators] are taught that boys will be boys and there are no consequences. In order for them to be a man they have to be powerful, aggressive, exert their control on others. And they grow up thinking this way, and so maybe it starts young when they’re on the playground and they gain leadership and fight with other boys or other girls on the playground and then when they get older and they’re on college campuses like this, they’re so socialized to think that they’re the ones in power that they think they have ownership and control of other bodies. And then when instances of domestic violence occur they don’t think they’re in the wrong, so they deny because they don’t even think that what they’re doing is wrong because they’re socialized into thinking that ‘This is how I am powerful. This is how I’m a man.’ They think this is how society views them and they need to play that role.”

Diana: “And now you have political individuals who have power who are also reinforcing this message. You see this in sports. The NFL for a long time turned their back on domestic violence or sexual violence. There were no consequences to these athletes either. We’re having an ongoing, a perpetration of influence in our society, in our media [and] in our criminal system... As this continues, it reinforces the thinking that that individual has power over another individual and can cause harm without consequence.”

What are some of the barriers that people go through when they disclose sexual assault, and also what happens afterwards? What are some of the consequences they face?

Diana: “A lot of the times when I meet with survivors of sexual assault, intimate relationship violence, stalking, the first concern they have is how they are going to be viewed by their peers. And actually, let me take a step back. It is how can I label this event that was so traumatic to me because labeling rape, labeling domestic violence, intimate relationship violence, or being stalked by a former partner or stranger, comes with a lot of stigma and it means that they have been victimized. I think that is the first step of difficulty that they have and at times when they have been able to label it, it is what will my family, my peers, the individuals around me, what are they going to think about what I have experienced? How are they going to criticize me or judge me? Was it my fault? Did I do something? These are common questions that you would hear that generally survivors tend to process and go through before really being able to say anything to anyone, let alone coming out the way Dr. Ford did in front of our government, in front of all of society. Lastly, it is: will I be believed if I actually say something? And the fear then is that when I say something now it's out in the open for people to then judge, criticize, and have their two cents on and how do I live with that? I think those are some of the common things individuals or survivors of domestic violence and sexual violence will experience and go through. The aftermath can either be very supportive by those who really care for them or at times can be extremely catastrophic. We look at Doctor Ford and how she was discredited even though she presented very professional and was able to explain herself. It was almost ignored as if the media wanted her to be the reckless emotional individual, what we would call the typical victim, but she presented otherwise. So the focus then was turned onto Brett Kavanaugh. His irrational behavior, his inability to stay focused on the questions and really provide a solid argument, and somehow he was still elected. So again, it is: will I be believed? How can I continue to go about my life now that I have put all this information out there for people to judge? Will there be any change in our system because of what I have done? Here on college campuses, I hear a lot of our students who go through the Title IX process ask very similar questions. If this does not come out as there was a misconduct policy, what does that mean about my life? The people who are going to be interviewed, what are they going to say about me? So, you really want to be able to weigh all these things before you decide ‘I am going to disclose my experience.’”

Shannon: “Yeah, even taking a look within cultural circles and cultural communities it is not easy for everyone to disclose or seek resources as it would be for other women or other men. Just because cultural stigma or even barriers in reporting in terms of language barriers, immigration status, maybe distrust with police, or counseling staff, or any institutions. It is important for people to realize that when they ask ‘why didn’t they report earlier?’ I can’t speak for all cultural communities but I am Chinese and within my community I often see there is a stigma to not talk about it. Maintaining face or maintaining your appearance is very important, and so, when people talk about it it’s hard to disclose to your family members when you don’t want to bring dishonor to your family. That is something we also have to think about when reaching these different communities because to just say ‘oh you have all these resources you have the police, you have counselors, you have this and that’, well there's a lot more to that. Family is very important and they don’t want to have a divide among family members who are a very important support system in these communities. It is really important to think about that and to not pressure survivors into reporting right away because there are a lot of barriers.”

Do you have any tips for any survivors out there, or people who aren’t survivors but just want to help in general?

Diana: “There are a lot of different hotlines survivors or individuals who may know a survivor and want to be able to support them best can call. There’s the National Sexual Violence Hotline, also the Domestic Violence hotline. They’re all national numbers, you can Google them online and they’ll pop up. I think if you’re just looking for that confidentiality, you can always seek medical providers. I know it’s difficult coming into therapy: therapy itself has a stigma and so now you’re dealing with a double stigma because you’re a survivor and you’re also in need of therapy. But sometimes it is a place where you can say what needs to be said, process what needs to be processed, and ultimately come to a conclusion of where you feel you can come at peace with what’s happened and how to continue rebuilding your life and strengthening your life. And also it’s a place for information. Specifically, for the Relationship and Sexual Violence Prevention and services, our goal is not just to get students in counseling. I mean, it’s important to address it, but we understand that not everyone’s ready. [RSVP’s goal] is to provide resource information about, here on college campus, what you can do and how how to get the information you may need so that you may make the most informed choices that you’re ready to make. And ultimately, to know that there are other individuals in the community who may have this information to provide the support. And we can also help connect you to other providers or other students who may be able to support you during this process better than a therapist. But ultimately, the goal is to really provide information so that you can make the best informed choice. And this also goes for friends: if you want to help a survivor I encourage you to listen and empathize, and be present. Be present with their pain, be present with their feelings and their emotions, be present with them and let them know that you’re there. But also keep in mind that it’s very triggering and can be very difficult to be there as a support, so get support of your own, either through therapy or through disclosing through the hotlines. Or, really just reaching out to family and friends that you trust in order to be able to get the support that you need.”

Shannon: “Always believe survivors. I think we need to stop doubting and just start believing them; cause the fact that they’re disclosing is already a huge step for them, and that takes a lot of energy and a lot of braveness and courage, to even just, you know, say that ‘I was a victim and survivor,’ because some people still doubt themselves, because of society. So, always believe, even if you think ‘oh well, he, she, they were drinking.’ You know, rape is rape. And sexual assaulters will sexually assault. And it’s not because of other factors. And so always believe. And also, don’t push your friends to report if they’re not feeling comfortable. Just because they disclose to you doesn’t mean that they’re ready to disclose to other people or even to take action. So, just be there to listen like Diana said. And as for students on campus, if you’re really passionate about combating sexual assault or combating domestic violence, one of the programs that RSVP has is VOICE, which is the Violence Outreach Intervention and Community Empowerment. We’re a peer-outreach group here on campus, we have the resources from RSVP to support us, and what we do is educate, because we want to prevent, we don’t want to be there after the incident happens, we want to stop the incident from even happening. And so, we educate our peers through outreach programs like giving presentations in the classroom about RSVP and what sexual assault and rape culture looks like. We also help program different events: this is October, so it’s Domestic Violence Awareness Month, and so we have a series of events that the interns and VOICE members have created, such as the ‘Evolution of the Final Girl,’ which is on October 23rd with Professor Lan Duong, from 12-2, at the Trojan Conference Room here at Engemman, where we’ll be talking about violence against women in horror films. And we also have a ‘Healing Halloween’ party coming up on October 31st, from 11-2, in the same conference room downstairs in Engemman, where we’re going to have healing spaces; and so there’s a lot of opportunities for students here on campus to get involved with, and we really encourage you to do so, cause I know there’s a lot of passion in combating sexual assault. And so a great way to do that is through this program where you have the support from RSVP, and you also have more connections if you really do want to change the climate about speaking to different directors or provosts.”